Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

I'm surprised I even have to explain this here but testing for basic language proficiency is not the only thing these types of tests are for. They test elements of writing, grammar, critical analysis, and vocabulary that students are still learning.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any easy way to get example questions - they're all locked behind a login that requires student id.

Furthermore, this isn't entirely an ESL issue - according to the article, scores for African-American students were the lowest, and they're obviously native speakers. So we would need more information to figure out the origin of this disparity.

One final point - these numbers are the percentage of students who scored above a threshold, NOT their average scores. All of the scores for every ethnic group are likely on something like a normal distribution, shifted to the right or left. Of the groups who performed below the standard, it's likely that the majority of them performed very close to the standard even if they were just below it.



>scores for African-American students were the lowest, and they're obviously native speakers.

This isn't entirely true. There is a great diversity of dialects of English. Schools test and grade students on their abilities with "standard" English.

For historical and racist reasons, African American Vernacular English is considered by many to be "stupid English", which puts many African American students at a disadvantage [0].

Setting dialectal variations aside; no one speaks standard English. In fact, "standard English" (that is, "correct" written English) contains rules that are not, and have never been, part of any dialect of English that I am aware of. For example, in standard English you cannot split infinitives, and must use commas (which aren't a "thing" in spoken English) in certain places. Further, the phonology of standard (written) English is miles away from what anyone says. This result of this is that being a native speaker of English is not sufficient for anyone to learn standard English. To do so, one must be exposed to sufficient written material; and exposure to written material tends to correlate with class.

[0] Admitidally, it is true that, as far as English dialects spoken in America go, AAVE is relativly distinctive from standard English (likely due to our history of segregation).


I wouldn't throw out accusations of racism and make the discussion inflammatory when it's not particularly relevant. You can just mention the differences.

Knowing "African American English" still puts one at a severe advantage compared to immigrants who don't know English or American children who have immigrant parents who can barely speak English. There are noticeable and helpful similarities between the AAVE and standard English.

African Americans also have cultural advantages compared to immigrants and immigrant children because their parents and family all grew up in America. Knowing and understanding American cultural references helps them learn standard English vocabulary and concepts much quicker.


Sample questions seem to be available here for students to practice: http://capt.tds.airast.org/student


Wow. Practice tests are abysmally convoluted and don't even give results feedback.


True, so is there a listening sub-component of the English Language Arts exam? How has that been trending?




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: