So who else is out there doing the work of enforcing American software patents on the users of the world? Even the BSA doesn't do that! Apple isn't out there enforcing their patent on the truetype hinting bytecode interpreter, but Debian refuses to ship a full version of freetype. The DVD-CCA gave up years ago, but Debian still won't ship a DeCSS implementation. Fraunhofer/Thomson/MPEG-LA only really care about companies shipping hardware, but Debian cares more about FUD and promoting OGG than actual use.
None of this shit matters at all when shipping source code, and binaries only matter if both parties are in the US. But the Debian project is out there with jackboots on, doing what they can to take useful freely-licensed software out of distribution. What other organization is doing anything like that?
I'm sorry that you find yourself so wrapped up in such an organization, I did not mean to insult you directly, but rather the ideology y'all are applying to make my world a worse place to live. And I would be far more acerbic in a face-to-face conversation.
You didn't understand my line of argument centering around idiocy (should have used fewer anaphora) — my point was that the Debian people know that they're being idiots, and that it's the purpose of their actions in this squabble. We all know that software patents are stupid, but Debian's approach is to show the world just how stupid software patents are by fully respecting them, implementing the letter of the law until it is repealed. I think that's a useless and infuriating course of action.
With regards to the legal stuff, I simply don't know. One of the things that bugged me about debian-legal were all the people convinced that they did know it all. I'm not a lawyer and neither are most people there. Neither are you or the OpenSSL guys either, though, as far as I know. My firm conviction is that most "open source legal debates" are essentially the blind arguing with the blind about various painters. Although, of course, many real lawyers are also so vague and non-commital in what they say that they're not much use either, so I tend to just want to stay as far away as possible from that kind of discussion.
That said, one thing I don't agree with you on is that "well, they probably won't notice / bother us, so it's ok to skirt the letter of the law". I think that's not really the right attitude either. Debian makes some strong commitments to shipping free software that people can use and redistribute as they see fit, so I think they have to be cautious at times.
I am not a part of Debian any more. I moved on to being simply a user (and bug reporter) of Ubuntu, which I think gets some things right that Debian didn't. I just don't like the "you fucking idiots" style of debate.
None of this shit matters at all when shipping source code, and binaries only matter if both parties are in the US. But the Debian project is out there with jackboots on, doing what they can to take useful freely-licensed software out of distribution. What other organization is doing anything like that?
I'm sorry that you find yourself so wrapped up in such an organization, I did not mean to insult you directly, but rather the ideology y'all are applying to make my world a worse place to live. And I would be far more acerbic in a face-to-face conversation.
You didn't understand my line of argument centering around idiocy (should have used fewer anaphora) — my point was that the Debian people know that they're being idiots, and that it's the purpose of their actions in this squabble. We all know that software patents are stupid, but Debian's approach is to show the world just how stupid software patents are by fully respecting them, implementing the letter of the law until it is repealed. I think that's a useless and infuriating course of action.