Fasting is possibly the most effective and powerful health tool I have come across. The only issue I have had with fasting is the intense energy levels I get during a fast make it hard to sit in an office 8 hours. My primate brain screams at me to get out and hunt/gather. Kinda stressful. I can't drink as much coffee either because I'm already wired.
My sleep patterns get completely messed up on my fasts. I'll sleep for 4 hours and then wide-awake. I switch back to normal eating and I get a full 8hrs sleep that night.
It made me think I was doing something wrong but then the more I thought about it, maybe I just don't need more than those 4hrs of sleep when I'm fasting.
This was mentioned in Matthew Walker's book "Why We Sleep." Ghrelin and dopamine levels are high which keep you awake. It is suspected to be an evolutionary boost that you are alert more in order to find food.
The actual feeling of being hungry doesn't persist when fasting.
There's a phase, but it passes. It's fairly well known that operating in fat-burning mode puts one in a different head space. It's one of the features commonly touted by advocates of the ketogenic diet, which experientially is very similar. There's a mental alertness and clarity, in my experience it's accompanied by elevated energy levels as well.
It seems to me that it arguably benefits the species to fire on all cylinders in periods of scarcity, as it improves chances of locating food before starvation. In periods of plenty, there's no urgent need, so a more conservative baseline mode of operating is advantageous as it saves fuel as fat for the scarcity periods. Humans didn't evolve with grocery stores and refrigeration, scarcity was a regular and mortal issue, our bodies evolved to address it.
Whenever I fast it feels like I'm on a sustained upper of sorts, once the hunger phase passes. It's kind of like being permanently wired, keyed up, sometimes a little over eager. And yeah it can interfere with going to sleep, similar to drinking coffee late in the day. It's not a problem in my experience if the day is spent being physically active though. Which I think makes perfect sense if we accept that this is an evolutionary trait improving odds of finding/killing a meal. We're supposed to be actively locating next meals when awake in this mode, not sedentary.
I've found it to be a valuable life hack and would argue everyone should at least be familiar with the experience enough to know the initial hunger phase is short-lived and what follows afterwards isn't unpleasant at all, and actually advantageous in some aspects. There are many activities where not having to bother with food/cooking/eating for a few days is game-changing, this combined with elevated energy levels and alertness as well? It's like magic. I never take food on day hikes anymore for instance. Instead I don't eat for the 24-hours prior and just bring water. I'm well clear of the hangry phase, and feel like running the entire thing (and if I'm alone, often do), it's unreal. There's plenty of fat on my person to last weeks of fasting.
I'm a very experienced faster, been doing it on and off for 17ish years; my longest fast was five days. It's not true (for me) that "the actual feeling of being hungry doesn't persist when fasting."
When I fast I'm fucking hungry, and that doesn't go away, though it becomes a bit more manageable; the intensity of the hunger waxes and wanes.
>It's fairly well known that operating in fat-burning mode puts one in a different head space... There's a mental alertness and clarity, in my experience it's accompanied by elevated energy levels as well
Definitely never experienced anything like this. Quite the opposite really.
Though I do enjoy the sheer uncomfortableness I feel when fasting in a weird sort of way, almost like feeling it makes the feed state feel so much better.
Maybe there's a significant diet/lifestyle component? For example I don't derive much of my happiness from the food I eat when not fasting. I have known multiple people over the years who eat almost exclusively comfort foods and it's the only thing keeping them out of depression. They would probably be very agitated by a multi-day fast.
My diet is pretty restricted in general, there's not a whole lot missing after the transition into fasting in terms of my daily life experiences and rewards. It's mostly a small burden has been removed.
I'm with you. My mental alertness and clarity during fasting is me being hungry, angry and impatient. When the hunger wave goes away, I'm left with angry and impatient. So yes, productivity rises.
Maybe when people who are naturally aloof and easy-going are fasting, they get alertness and clarity. I'm already a somewhat aggressive person maybe it pushes me a bit too far.
My coworker and I are very good friends. When went on a restrictive diet for a month, we both were hangry all the time and eventually she stop talking to me (even though I'm her boss). When we look back at that month, we can laugh, but at the time we had no idea we acting like that. A third coworker just rolled her eyes at us because she knew what was going on.
Yeah, one of the reasons I switched to a low-carb, sometimes zero carb, diet is for that constant "up" feeling.
I was about to add that I've never tried fasting, but I just realised that a lot of people do this "intermittent fasting" stuff where you don't eat for sixteen hours. I normally eat dinner at 5:30 pm and breakfast around 9 am, so I guess I'm almost there? I've never noticed any real benefits though.
I wonder, is it that your body is worried about getting food and will cut off sleep to give you more time to find it, or is it that the build up of chemicals like adenosine(which seems to play a role in sleepiness, and gets cleared out during sleep.) in the body has slowed so that less sleep is required?
Same here. Worse, I've even observed my body has difficulty producing enough heat to warm my bed. Also, when I do an important sport effort I often have troubles sleeping the next night.
I have recently gone from 1 day water-fasting to 7-days water-fasting at a time. The first 3 days are the hardest. On 7th day, I was still completely full of energy and felt like I could have easily gone to two full weeks (which I didn't just to avoid risk).
Has anyone here tried 2 full weeks of water fasting? Any extra precautions to take?
My record is 12 days. I start intensely craving things for their electrolyte content late in the week, and like you, I'll eat a sofa cushion on day 3, but after, it's smooth sailing and the brain sort of gives up being manic about food.
I'll crave things like pickle juice. Clearly the body wants its salts. It's amazing how good it is as signaling the things it needs, when it needs them.
My wife will make some really appalling beverage for me, containing pickle juice, apple cider vinegar, lite salt, and I think lemon juice. It terrifies me to think about. On a fast, though? I'll literally drink it by the quart and want more.
I just tried to do a 48-hour fast and only made it to 24 before I had to eat. I felt dizzy, irritable and couldn't concentrate on anything other than my hunger.
Stay busy, distract yourself with interesting things.
I have done 3-4 days water fast a few times out of curiosity. In my case, the hunger cravings diminshed after 48 hours or so.
However, I've never feel better, worse, or different from the experience. No extra energy, no extra ability to focus, no changes in sleep, no excessive fatigue, etc. Other than the hunger, I felt normal.
I am convinced that fasting is a fad and may have placebo effect if you think it will.
Addition: I have used a 48-72 hour fast as a precursor to a longer-term low carb/keto diet (for weight loss). The fast will get the excess sugar out of your system and you'll be able to get into ketosis quickly.
It will sound almost confrontational, but you literally have to force yourself not to eat. I'm not going to pretend it's easy, but that's the way to do it. The feeling will go away once you get past that stage of not being able to think of anything else but food.
I've found short term fasting to be like a muscle I have to exercise. Skipping a meal with abundant calories around me was hard. I had to start off small (skipping one meal) and slowly work up to slightly longer fasts (skipping the next meal, etc). I think we all have different physiologies and different mental adaptations (certainly for me hunger is partly an emotion, a desire to satiate that only bears a passing resemblance to how many calories my body needs) though and what works for me might not work for you.
If everybody around you feels as miserable, but they are not worried, it's way reassuring :) Bonus if you are in an isolated place making temptations hard.
Another thing is that you should avoid hard things in your first fast, such as working, reading complex material, filling administrative papers, etc. Take the time to rest, watch movies, listen to music, etc. The first two fasts I kept my job, and I didn't benefit as much as the next where I decided to take it easy.
Surprisingly, walking 2 to 3h a day helps a lot to feel less shitty, although you should not do it alone the first time you fast.
Once you are used to it, it does not necessarily because less shitty the next time. But you know what's up, and so it's easier.
One thing though, is that fat people and people with bad food habits will have a harder time.
Your body produces a hormone called ghrelin which controls your hunger levels. It produces it based on your eating patterns and the time of day.
When you fast, your ghrelin levels peak in the first 24 hours, but after that, they steadily decline. A lot of people don't even feel hungry anymore after about day three.
Question: why? Why not to do more shorter fasts rather than a long one? Unless you're heavily obese and need to shave weight quickly, what's the upside?
In Jung's book, I think I can remember the 'safe' fasting period was about five days at most, when you go over that you should take precautions.
Do you expect that a longer fasting can bring more rewarda than multiple, shorter fasts?
I typically put pink salt in my tea, does not taste great but after a few days it's legitimately satisfying. Amazing how your standards can change so quickly in desperation.
I don't think that's great takeaway advice or an accurate summary. It may not intentionally be so, but it comes off as dangerous and reckless. The NIH article suggests that anyone who fasts for 10+ days is considered an at-risk group. OP asked about fasting for 14 days.
Not scientific, but this is tried and simple tip from traditional Ramadhan fast-breaking in Tunisia.
We start with some dry fruits (usually dates) and olive oil (or butter), then some soup. I think the chewing first gets your body ready and the soup is there to ease the stomach into whatever your regular diet is.
For the reasons described in the linked article :)
This is just the latest of many studies that provides clinical evidence for what people have anecdotally reported for millennia: occasional fasting makes people feel healthier and seems to make their bodies work better.
The first time I fasted 4 years ago, it cleared up the brain fog (for lack of a better description) that had been an ongoing issue for about a year prior to that. The difference was extremely noticeable and happened overnight. Since then I've always noticed increased mental clarity and energy after fasting (minimum 24 hours - strictly water only).
Increased mental clarity, energy and feeling of wellbeing is quite real. What exactly are you expecting to happen within 24 hours? Super powers? 10 years increased lifespan?
I was hoping for information on the effects or longer term, repeated fasting, as the article lays it out. It would seem that 24 hours of fasting has the same effects as going for a jog.
Not the same as going for a jog. I had been regularly exercising intensely for 10 years prior to that. It's not the same effect. To understand the longer term or scientific viewpoint, there is an abundance of research on the benefits of caloric restriction. Just Google it (on http://scholar.google.com/).
Plenty of bodybuilders do fasting, especially intermittent fasting. Make sure you get the nutrients you require before and after a fast and combine with resistance training and you have no reason for concern (IANAN)
> Plenty of bodybuilders do fasting, especially intermittent fasting.
I know that they do IF, but do we have examples of bodybuilders that do 3+ day regular fasts? I'm not aware of any. IF can simply be a neat way to calorically reduce, but legitimate multi-day fasting is another beast entirely.
I’m on mobile, so can’t easily find it right now. Some research has shown that IF can lead to to increase production of HGH. That in turn led to an increase in muscle mass with no other changes. We all know how hard it is to control nutrition studies though, so I suggest you search for yourself.
Personally I haven't noticed any reduction in strength doing 8 hour time restricted eating. I've hit my most recent PRs doing this. For reference I'm decently strong with squat/bench/deadlift being 470/320/545 lbs.
A 500+ lb deadlift is no joke, nice work. Conventional or sumo?
Regarding the fasting time, I think there's a big difference between the IF you are doing and eg the multi-day fasts people here are talking about. They don't sound helpful for strength sports.
I would agree that multi-day fasts would not be good for strength sports. There doesn't seem to be a authoritative source but LeanGains states you won't lose muscle if you're fasting less than 24 hours.
(https://leangains.com/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked-major-u...)
I agree. IF is something I think people can just fit into their lives. It appears to have tons of benefits with little downside.
Longer fasts are something different entirely. They have their place, but are more of an event that must be planned. Personally, I like things I can do for life and turn into habits. I don't see how I could make 3-7 day fasts a habit.
Oh, and I'm not the person you asked, but my best DL was conventional 525lb weighing 199 :)
Not an expert but I would not think you would suffer much muscle loss in a short (less than 1 week) fast. It takes longer than that for your metabolism to transition into starvation mode. Maybe there's some risk if your body fat is already very low.
It looks like you can lost a fair amount of muscle mass, and that you lose the most muscle mass early, so 1 21 day fast would be better for you than 3 7 day.
Probably unfounded, unless you're in the uncommon niche of having very low body fat and not exercising regularly (a few days a week). Depending on how long you fast, of course. 12-24 hours isn't going to make all that much difference.
I'm not trying to disparage fasting, who am I to say it hasn't helped you, or others?
That being said you call it a health tool, and then say it produces stress, which has been documented as being extremely detrimental to health. You also mention, being unable to focus, and being wired.
I'm glad it's helped you, but this endorsement makes me question the health benefits more actually, and makes me less interested in trying it.
This is only one study, but there's some evidence that stress and the belief that stress is detrimental are correlated with detrimental health effects [1]. In other words, there may be a negative placebo effect at play where its less to do with the stress and more to do with how you respond to it.
Now, consider that fasting (and, really, consistent exercise as well) is correlated with high self-control and an internal belief that you're doing this to improve your physical health. The worst kind of Stress is stress from sources you can't control, but you have complete control over what you eat.
> That being said you call it a health tool, and then say it produces stress, which has been documented as being extremely detrimental to health.
The dose makes the poison. Not enough stress has been shown to be extremely detrimental to health too (Fitness training produces stress. Take your pick of studies showing that you should still do it).
Experience the same, have water fasted 5 days before and doing it twice a year. Three options here
1. Accept you will seemingly need less sleep and go to bed later, use any sleepless time in bed as an opportunity to read and meditate.
2. Be extra careful with sleep hygiene.
3. Use hot then ice cold showers before bed, and possibly sleep aids spanning from 1 mg melatonin to 7.5 mg doxylamine (very safe, but gives you a hangover due to long half-life, maybe not so bad if you feel too wired) to benzodiazepines or hypnotics like ambien (shorter half-lifes, more effective, ideally with assistance from a doctor).
Some argue that sleeping less is a good stress during a fast, but I haven't seen any good evidence to support that.
I am curious about fasting as well, and have been considering trying it. Can you point me to some practical advice on how to get started on fasting that worked for you and some research to back up the claims.
You can search Youtube for some Joe Rogan podcasts on fasting. He's had on a few different people who discuss how they IF.
The thing that clicked for me with IF, was instead of thinking about fasting for X hours, I think about having a 9 hour window each day when I can eat. While not perfect, I slide this window around if I have stuff going in the morning or at night.
Whatever hunger I would feel in the mornings stopped pretty quickly. I workout first thing, so I was already doing most of my workouts on an empty stomach. I had figured out awhile ago I had much more energy before that first meal.
The hardest part for me was skipping milk in my coffee in the mornings since that would break my fast. It's still the place I trip up, but if I can go 4/7 mornings that's a win.
As an aside, initially I also used hunger as a mental exercise. I would think that there are people who are truly starving, and I can't go 15 hours without food? Toughen up. I don't really notice hunger much anymore so that exercise didn't last.
Late to the game, but paring fasting with low-carbs, so you don't have the insulin/energy spikage (which makes it harder to fast), have been useful techniques for me.
I don't know what your day is like, but for myself I started during the work week by doing intermittent fasting. I would stop eating (in particular, no calories, so I stopped drinking too!) by 8pm the night before and then do not eat before 11-noon the next day. This gave me an 8-9 hour window to eat. It was only rough the first few days, but if you stick with it, you might find yourself doing intermittent fasting on the weekends without even trying.
I do similarly for many years, my no_calories window is between 10pm and 12-noon. This is very simple, just avoid any breakfast and drink some water instead.
Also important to quit coffee, I find it improves a lot of things (after a week of withdrawal symptoms).
What improvements have you noticed after quitting coffee?
I ask, because I drink coffee in the morning during the fast. From everything I've read, it doesn't break the fast.
Btw, I don't use coffee as a sleep substitute. I wake up every morning without an alarm. I drink coffee for the taste. I simply love it.
>> What improvements have you noticed after quitting coffee?
Better mood and feeling more energized through the day. Better vision. The latest is quite strange, but I can really see better, probably a side effect of improved concentration and calmness.
Dr. Jason Fung's books: Obesity Code and Complete Guide to Fasting. The first book makes the case for it. The second book was better for the "how-to". Both refer to a lot of research.
I have been using an App called Zero which (importantly for your question) has a "Learn" section which allows you to read up on fasting. (as an example they link to this: https://getkion.com/fasting-decoded/
I started with the 'skip breakfast' style of fasting, which was good, but then I did my homework on the different 'types':
16:8 16 hours no food: 8 hour 'feeding window' (generally normal dinner, no breakfast, later lunch)
18:6 - this is where I believe most Intermittent fasters go.
20:4 - I've done this a bit, and it works for me, but I can't do it more than once or twice(!) a week.
There is no diet. You stop eating. Drink only water (some people allow for coffee/tea but I think if you're being strict about it that should be avoided also).
I meant in general. Many people on intermittent fasting adjust their diet off-fast in various ways to compensate for nutrition they may have missed (i.e. increased protein intake in the following meal, etc)
Some people break their fasts with a high protein meal for some hormonal benefits, but there's no "missing nutrition". Some people over eat when breaking their fasts early in their adaption. Otherwise: our digestive cycles take a long time to work.
Tried skipping meals for curiosity's sake. When hunger reflex strikes (boredom + 12 or 4pm ..) I try to divert the fulfilling need with activities. As if I could get mental satiety with action instead of nutrients.
My non-scientific, and poorly researched understanding is that calories in/calories out is how you manage weight. But digestion itself is also a somewhat 'taxing' processes, and eating 3 square meals a day means you are pretty much constantly digesting food through out the day. For example, if you look into how type 2 diabetes works, your body basically can't produce enough insulin to process the glucose in your system (roughly), so you end up with high blood sugar. One way to deal with it is to reduce total calorie consumption, but it also feels like simply compressing your eating into a smaller window could have similar impacts (i.e. your average glucose levels throughout the day might be lower, even if you are eating a little more).
I wouldn't be surprised if there are other functions and processes in the body benefit (maybe kidneys and the liver benefit from some more 'downtime'). I am not a huge fan of the 'evolution' argument, but I assume our distant ancestors ate meals in somewhat sporadic schedules, so it would kinda make sense that our bodies are tuned to that cadence, as opposed to the constant supply of processed foods that we currently subsist on.
Off-topic, but what's wrong with being unable to drink as much coffee because you already have an equivalent effect? Are you that fond of the taste of coffee?
