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> Converting all energy to electricity alone is a huge and expensive undertaking. Some of the technology the article touts is expertimental at best

You seem to be contradicting their headline finding that this lowers costs and does not require "miracle tech".

What do you know that they don't?



Of cause such articles are first, advocating for something, therefore per-definition, skewed and non-objective by very design. By that I mean that 1) it focuses on a goal rather than actual process, 2) there is no trade-off analysis.

Without any need to go into details such estimate(s) are 100% wrong easily several orders of magnitude underestimating (as per point 1,2 above). Just imagine running a semi-complex industrial or technological project estimated in a similar fashion. I work on government-funded space-projects and could tell stories about overruns 2-3 orders of magnitude and schedule delay of factor 5-10. I am aware, that in business it is basically the same, and extending this to multiple-governments, as this article pre-supposes, linked through geo-politics and many other real-world constraints, is on the side of "stupid" if to be taken seriously.

Is this just for activists to chat about something? It certainly has nothing to offer as actual plan to prosper for the said states, or address realistically and meaningfully environmental pressures societies create.


What makes you think that "there is no trade-off analysis" ?

I find the assertions of "overruns" to be mere hand-waving. Likewise the repeated invocation of "activists".


Certainly there is a cost in transmitting information, especially in short kind of paragraphs which involve abstracting away the working model of reality. I cannot turn this into unsolicited lecture on the 'iron triangle', activists, government, intellectuals. Neither can I detail Mr. Jacobson past follies published and debunked. Abstractions are opinionated by definition, so some gaps and perception of 'handwaving' is inevitable, that is the nature. I drew, in my previous post, an analogy that many might be familiar with, and that is that the more complex a problem, the most likely it will be over-run in costs and schedule. To make it even worse, throw into government management of such issue within its legal and societal dimension, and then still further, add international relationships.

Now to the point. Mr. Jacobson is known very well to produce utopian sounding headlines (and studies) [google may help with that]. He has been on this message for some time, and is being debunked by his colleagues continuously. My point of criticism is that it is stupid to even start discussing any project over short paper when it is claimed that 62 trillion is all it would costs spread over 150 nations. At best, this is a fancy back-of-the-envelope calculations, however, which I do not see to have any real-world value. If you disagree, give me a step one (if you accept 100% correctness of this estimate), that any one such nation should do right now. (rhetorical, of cause you or anyone else does not have a 'step-one' it is not how it works).

The issue is so complex on correlated across vast societal domains that to attack it head on and conclude something as naive as:

"By electrifying all energy sectors; producing electricity from clean, renewable sources; creating heat, cold, and hydrogen from such electricity; storing electricity, heat, cold and the hydrogen; expanding transmission; and shifting the time of some electricity use, we can create safe, cheap and reliable energy everywhere."

would be simply impossible. And to the degree attempted, it would be ridiculous. This conclusion has no connection to the reality, period. The authors, as usually, assume 'unconstrained choices', which cannot be remedied since they have no knowledge of the political, legal, societal and other dimensions.


>> You seem to be contradicting their headline finding that this lowers costs and does not require "miracle tech".

My biggest concern is how to pay for the $62 trillion up-front cost.

Lowering costs is great, but how will the up-front cost be paid?

The article states: "By electrifying all energy sectors; producing electricity from clean, renewable sources; creating heat, cold, and hydrogen from such electricity; storing electricity, heat, cold and the hydrogen"

Electifying ALL energy sectors is the big miracle. Electric cars are doing pretty good, but what about electric trucks, trains, and aircraft? The tech is not there yet.


> My biggest concern is how to pay for the $62 trillion up-front cost .. but how will the up-front cost be paid?

There are certain subject (social spending) where this question is always asked. There are certain subject (military / police spending) where it almost never is.

Funny that.

I also don't think that it's all "up-front" in the the same fiscal year.




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