Ukraine got invaded by a foreign power that is committing war crimes, taking territory that isn't theirs and repeatedly threatening other neighboring countries.
We should have given them this support when Russia took crimea, but didn't. The least we can do now is follow through on our agreement.
(Plus all of the other reasons in this thread -- there are fantastic reasons for the western nations to support Ukraine's defense separate from those I'm referring to here)
> 1. Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.[7]
> 2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.
> 3. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
> 4. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
> 5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against the signatory.
> 6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.[8][9]
IMO, the war crimes thing, unless very egregious, is not a very good argument. Because if there is a war, there will be war crimes, and wartime-legal actions that are as bad as war crimes, too. Basically, you start a war, you awaken the monster, and everything that happens is your responsibility. A "small" amount of war crimes is par for the course. The US did it, too!
> Basically, you start a war, you awaken the monster, and everything that happens is your responsibility.
Correct, Russia invaded Ukraine and committed war crimes. Thus why Russia can be penalized for those war crimes as a country, even though the crimes were committed by individual soldiers.
> if there is a war, there will be war crimes
And if you have a city, people will commit crimes too. Should we not punish those either?
> IMO, the war crimes thing, unless very egregious, is not a very good argument. Because if there is a war, there will be war crimes, and wartime-legal actions that are as bad as war crimes, too. Basically, you start a war, you awaken the monster, and everything that happens is your responsibility. A "small" amount of war crimes is par for the course. The US did it, too!
I don't know I think the scales of rape and torture of civilians by Russia in Ukraine is pretty egregious.
The Russians have interests in holding a security border around themselves which extends to about a dozen American allies and trading partners Russia extends their security border to those allies and trading partners, they will almost certainly stop being so.
The Russian plans don't stop at Ukraine, they extended to Moldova, Poland, and lots of other nations.
Is it viable for them to do that in the long term? You never know. Right now it seems clear that the answer is no, they can barely take Ukraine so how are they going to handle Poland and the other countries when they've already expended their economic tools that could have done so?
But it's generally in our better interest so make sure that they are as incapable as possible of expanding those borders.
We would be fools to allow them to expand those security borders because it means losing those allies and a huge amount of trade and resources that come with them.
They are either in our circle, or they are in Russia's. Russia treats these countries as former colonies, so as long as they are given freedom of choice they're going to ally themselves strongly with the west.
For the relatively low price of funding Ukraine we slow down Russia's advance at worst, and we totally halt it at best. If we manage to totally halt Russian advances and equip Ukraine to be competitors for Russia, we've now got a country that has just survived a war with Russia sitting on their borders armed to the teeth and angry at them.
They are literally fighting the war for us, without risking nuclear conflict. Why shouldn't we be interested in this tragedy?
> You always have to take responsibility for your actions, and Ukrainians pay for these now.
We aren't defending Ukraine because we are nice people, or defending them because we quite like the consequences of Ukraine's decision, and we're more than happy to support and ensure that those consequences are as minimal as possible, while ensuring the consequences of Russia's decision are as high as possible.
