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On the beef thing: French: "biftek" from the English: "beef steak", beef from boef. The borrow words come full circle!

The French used to routinely boil their beef but during a lengthy Parisian siege, the locals noticed that the peoples that they came to call "les rosbifs", roasted their beef (phnaaar!) We were chucking steaks on the barbies long before Australia was even thought of ... or something jingoistic 8)

These essays are a bit of fun, as you say. History and life and language are rather more messy than many would like. At one point the article witters on about France and Wessex. Both terms were valid "back then" and are still valid now but they are sodding complicated ideas and neither mean the same now as they used to.

Even the notion of English (and French - obviously) is pretty tricky. Nowadays, in the UK alone we have a largely homogenised language, with some localisations ... on the surface. For example: jitty - allyway, bairn - child, skritch - cry. Then we have the collisions between the Brythonic languages (Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Cumbric, Cornish and the rest) and English. So a Devonshire bird like my mum spoke what sounded like complete twaddle to a modern (!) lad like myself, when she was a child.

You (@gumby) might know the difference between twaddle and twiddle but I am sure I've lost a few readers right there.

My point is that language, nationality and the like are rather more fluid than people generally think.

Was hal!



> Then we have the collisions between the Brythonic languages (Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Cumbric, Cornish and the rest) and English

Small correction: neither Irish nor the two languages people might refer to as Scottish are Brythonic languages.

Drinkhail! ;-)


Noted. I'm just a linguistic civilian 8)


>biftek

Seen that word, with that spelling, IIRC, in Iranian restaurant menus in India.


I remember biftek in Turkey also? Bistek appears to be "beef steak" in the Philippines?


“Bistec a la X” for many types of X is part of the Spanish-speaking world, including the Philippines. The spelling with a “k” is a loan word into Tagalog.


Bistec a la X” for many types of X is part of the Spanish-speaking world

Right, even for X = pork. But lately, it's fading in favour of "filete" (slice) of X, at least in Spain.


“Bistecca” in Italian.


And what does the X stand for in that?


Anything. Bistec a la Mexicana is “Mexican-style steak.” Replace with any nationality or style or whatever.


It's also similar in Russian and Ukrainian: "beefshteks"


This was definitely a tradecraft code word when two dudes passed a briefcase between each other in a cold park one day in Moscow.

Heavy, heavy pronunciation going on to near comical effect.


Psst! Tovarisch! Next meeting at 11:00 p.m. Tuesday under the bridge just after Gorky Prospekt! Wear a grey checked coat, with a copy of Pravda under your arm. Da?

Oops, too many spy novels plus a bad sense of humour ... ;)


Or maybe, too many bad spy novels :)


Yep - Bistek is beef steak in PH. and Bifstek in India is likely due to colonialism. Its amazing that Chicken Makhani was actually invented in the UK.


Yes. Not been to Turkey, but I read about cuisines, for fun, including on Wikipedia and food blogs. And IIRC, steak is called biftek in Turkey.


I think there used to be a kebab place in Glasgow called bifteki.

It generally signalled the end of a night when you headed there.


English beefsteak -> French bifte(c)k -> Turkish biftek -> Greek bifteki


Thanks, that makes a good deal of sense.

I guess there’s probably been a few places called bifteki around the uk and other countries then.


That spelling is not the generally used one in French (or other languages) : it's spelled bifteck

(See https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/bifteck)


Yes, but I've seen it the way I wrote it above, in restaurants in real life, that's why I wrote it the way I did. :)

Also, see the Czech, Macedonian, and other entries under the Descendants section at your own link above. Many of them spell it the way I did.


Romanian doesn't use K so it's "biftec" in menus and recipes :)


you're thinking of Bistek, also in indonesia


I have the etymology bug. Interestingly as I have been on meditative trail rides recently, I have been thinking about a desire to compile the etymology of the corpus of words used in tech.

And was wondering if there might be an easy way to build a a tech geneology/etemology tree.




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