> The results are solidly in: They're an utter disaster for most people, and for society at large. In no particular order, they ruin social interactions in public situations (think "talking to people in the grocery line" - though I've seen fewer people on their phones lately and can get some conversations going),
I’m in the age group that is just old enough to remember adult life before everyone had smartphones.
Honestly, it’s getting weird to read people’s unrealistically idealistic descriptions of life before smartphones. I don’t recall people striking up conversations in grocery lines before smart phones, nor would I have been interested in it.
I think people also downplay how much smartphones just replaced rampant TV consumption for people who like to be entertained constantly. The same people who can’t entertain themselves without their smartphone and who consume toxic content would probably be sitting in front of TVs and watching Jerry Springer type shows instead of scrolling /r/relationships or watching Fox News talking heads instead of whatever weird political thing they’re consuming.
Smartphones changed many things, but the idyllic offline-first fantasies I keep reading about weren’t reality before smartphones either.
If you find yourself unable to moderate consumption, then ditching the smartphone is a good idea for you. However, I reject the idea that all techies need to reject technology and smartphones and embrace an extremist anti-position on the matter. Personally, I handle smartphone usage just fine as do most of the adults around me.
People should recognize when they have a problem, but projecting their own solution on to everyone else is about as appealing as the person who had a problem with drinking too much trying to insist that nobody else should drink any alcohol at all either.
I also use my smartphone for important things like maps, taking photos, keeping lists, and even paying for groceries if I forget my wallet. The way some people talk about smartphones as if they were just social media scrolling devices and nothing more is entirely foreign to how I use my phone.
I'm in the age group that is just old enough to remember adult life before everyone had cellphones. And yes, it wasn't an idyllic ago. People my age were constantly texting on the phone, mashing the alphanumeric buttons multiple times simply to get a single character. Before that teens used to hang out at home on the phone (or, in my case, tying up the phone line with the modem) chatting with friends.
I think this dim world view of smartphones is a product of excess. Sure, you wouldn't have many random conversations with strangers at the grocery store, yet they did happen. I suspect they happen a lot less often these days. While those random conversations with strangers were not always welcome, I don't recall them being received with as much hostility as seen from some of the commenters here.
As for people projecting their own solutions on everyone else, I have mixed feelings about that. Ideally people would be able to curb their smartphone usage independent of the world around them. Yet that is easier said than done. You're going to have a challenging time curbing your smartphone usage if the social expectations of your friends or expectations of your employer depend upon using a smartphone. To use your alcohol analogy, it would be like an alcoholic trying to give up the bottle when their friends and colleagues meet up at the bar every night. It's not so much a case that everyone needs to stop drinking. It is a case of the people around them needing to respect that alcohol should not be a fundamental tool for social or professional interactions.
> As for people projecting their own solutions on everyone else, I have mixed feelings about that. Ideally people would be able to curb their smartphone usage independent of the world around them. Yet that is easier said than done. You're going to have a challenging time curbing your smartphone usage if the social expectations of your friends or expectations of your employer depend upon using a smartphone. To use your alcohol analogy, it would be like an alcoholic trying to give up the bottle when their friends and colleagues meet up at the bar every night. It's not so much a case that everyone needs to stop drinking. It is a case of the people around them needing to respect that alcohol should not be a fundamental tool for social or professional interactions.
You’re suggesting that because one person struggles with smartphone addiction, all of their friends and professional acquaintances should also give up their smartphones and not use them for social or professional interactions?
The alcohol analogy is apt, because I’ve had a couple friends struggle with alcohol addiction and recover. One of them tried to push complete alcohol abstinence on everyone else, insisting that it couldn’t possibly be used responsibly.
Yet the rest of us did use it responsibly. They didn’t understand how we could simply choose not to drink most nights (or weeks, or even months if we wanted) and how we can choose to drink only a single drink and then be done. They insisted that the entire concept of drinking was flawed and uncontrollable and that we all needed to acknowledge that it’s not working out for anyone. That we need to give up completely, hard stop.
And that’s exactly what some of these extremist anti-smartphone arguments are suggesting: That everyone’s consumption is uncontrollable and negative, that nobody can control themselves, and that the only possible solution is to go back to dumb phones. It’s a severe failure to imagine that anyone else’s behavior might differ from their own, or a failure to accept that maybe their own problems don’t extend to everyone else in the world. It’s certainly comforting to believe that your own problems aren’t a personal failing but rather a feature of being human, but the truth is that many of us do use smartphones with moderation just fine.
> You’re suggesting that because one person struggles with smartphone addiction, all of their friends and professional acquaintances should also give up their smartphones and not use them for social or professional interactions?
To an extent, I suppose so. That is not to say that everyone should abstain from smartphone use, but they should show some consideration in how they use it. For example, should they be using a social networking app for communication when a voice call or SMS will do? Likewise, should that staff meeting be held in a bar when it could be done on the business's premises?
I wish I had a photo to share, but there's a museum on Bere Island in southwestern Ireland about the island's people and history. It's a TINY island with a few hundred people on it. One of the exhibits shows pictures of how people would gather at the one street corner (I mean, it was a dirt path, not a "street" as you imagine it) and dance and play music on Friday nights until late. And then how that died out after TV showed up.
That's sad, but on the other hand - I bet nobody now has to deal with broken bottles, urine, and the other dreck that festive gatherings tend to produce.
Modern society is definitely more deliberate in how people interact. You lose some poetic spontaneity but gain in peace and order, which make society scale up. I'm not saying it's all good but it's a trade-off.
I think some people dancing on a street corner in the 40's and 50's is a far cry from the junk you see today. Given that this was before plastic was commonplace I doubt there was too much persistent litter, and if someone pees in a bush I don't really care.
Maybe, but what I'm saying is that, if they were to do it today, as the parent comment wistfully longs for, that would be what the locals have to put up with.
I’m old enough to remember before everyone had a cellphone, let alone a smart phone. People interacted more in real life, you would chat with random strangers throughout your day. It brought people closer together, there was more of a community, and things were less polarized. Sure you would meet some crazy people, but it gave you something to talk about back home. You would also meet interesting people and even get some interesting experiences.
Now everyone is in their own social / information bubble, oblivious to their own surroundings. We are more polarized, lonely, and with less real life friends.
It's a dual-use lean back and lean forwards device. Lean back technologies like the TV and reddit are the problem. Your smartphone use is lean-forwards. For others it's lean back. Phones have accelerometers in them, maybe they could determine if you're leaning back and enforce a time limit if you are leaning too far back.
Also, I don’t think of smartphones as the distraction problem since the distractions are also on laptop and tablet. There are only a couple app that are only on phone, but there are also ones like Reddit and Hacker News that I don’t use on phone.
Telling people not use smartphones is like telling them to not use the Internet. People will need to figure out the distractions and social media with their phones.
Totally agree. While I certainly spent too much time on reddit, there is so much more. I can add to your list messaging with friends, quick payments, uber/train/flight apps, 2FA auth, spotify, quick queries to chatgpt, tracking workouts. I even use instagram mainly to keep in touch with acquaintances outside of my close friend circle and learning about interesting events.
Instagram is the only point I’ll disagree on - it’s mostly become promoted content with friends content representing a fraction of what you’re being exposed to
Best is to not have the app and use it through the browser to avoid mindlock
Things have really started changing with when radio receivers became popular. Before them, there really was no technology for easy, cheap, endless, captivating passive entertainment. TV was radio on steroids, and Internet and smartphones are even more captivating.
> I don’t recall people striking up conversations in grocery lines before smart phones, nor would I have been interested in it.
I do. You may not quite be old enough to have seen/participated in this. Or maybe it wasn't happening where you live for some reason? (E.g., this was probably more common in the urbs than the sub-urbs, due to other alienating forces in the latter).
> people also downplay how much smartphones just replaced rampant TV consumption for people who like to be entertained constantly
It was (mostly) not possible to have a TV with you at all moments, on the bus, in line, in the toilet. This meant lots of times where people were with their thoughts or one another. Also, phones have not replaced TV but overlay it. Many (most) now watch their TV (even if streaming) while also layering distraction from their phone.
> Personally, I handle smartphone usage just fine as do most of the adults around me.
Good for you! I'm curious, what's your average phone usage in hrs/day?
IMO, the degrading effect of smart phones (and the distraction machines of the attention economy more generally) is something that should be discussed and problematized. If some are good at self-moderating, their contributions to the discussion may be especially helpful.
> I reject the idea that all techies need to reject technology and smartphones
Just to clarify, rejecting smart phones as they are currently designed and implemented as bad technology is not the same as rejecting all technology per se.
> projecting their own solution on to everyone else is about as appealing as the person who had a problem with drinking too much trying to insist that nobody else should drink any alcohol at all either
This is an interesting analogy b/c ["No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health"](https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-...). I doubt that smart phones are as unequivocally toxic as alcohol, but I do suspect that the current way they are used and developed may be, esp. thanks to gamification, nudge design, and surveillance. Research is coming out on this, but I think there is good reason to not assume it is systemically innocuous as you think it is.
However, b/c living in an inattentive society may actually be worse for everyone, it's possible that a better analogy may be smoking in public or drunk driving: if you smoke in public places or get behind a wheel, everyone is at greater risk.
> I also use my smartphone for important things like maps, taking photos, keeping lists, and even paying for groceries if I forget my wallet.
Imagine a utility that enabled these important functions but did not also constantly disrupt your attention with push notifications, harvest your data, or present the temptation of hours wasted in toxic digital fun-houses! :D It's possible!
I’m in the age group that is just old enough to remember adult life before everyone had smartphones.
Honestly, it’s getting weird to read people’s unrealistically idealistic descriptions of life before smartphones. I don’t recall people striking up conversations in grocery lines before smart phones, nor would I have been interested in it.
I think people also downplay how much smartphones just replaced rampant TV consumption for people who like to be entertained constantly. The same people who can’t entertain themselves without their smartphone and who consume toxic content would probably be sitting in front of TVs and watching Jerry Springer type shows instead of scrolling /r/relationships or watching Fox News talking heads instead of whatever weird political thing they’re consuming.
Smartphones changed many things, but the idyllic offline-first fantasies I keep reading about weren’t reality before smartphones either.
If you find yourself unable to moderate consumption, then ditching the smartphone is a good idea for you. However, I reject the idea that all techies need to reject technology and smartphones and embrace an extremist anti-position on the matter. Personally, I handle smartphone usage just fine as do most of the adults around me.
People should recognize when they have a problem, but projecting their own solution on to everyone else is about as appealing as the person who had a problem with drinking too much trying to insist that nobody else should drink any alcohol at all either.
I also use my smartphone for important things like maps, taking photos, keeping lists, and even paying for groceries if I forget my wallet. The way some people talk about smartphones as if they were just social media scrolling devices and nothing more is entirely foreign to how I use my phone.