Users? Obviously xorg devs want to work on something that isn't ancient and crufty. But users want something that actually works and it has taken almost 2 decades to get to that point.
Actually I still have more issues on Wayland than X. Although it is at least starting to swing in the other direction - e.g. KDE's screen recording feature doesn't work on X. The button's still there but if you click it nothing happens.
Most users have no idea what is behind. They don't want X or anything X related, they want things to work. Most of the things worked before 2020, including legacy things through xwayland. Now all things work, except maybe remote apps through ssh ootb, but for this you can either use RDP or Waypipe.
The only thing maybe worth discussing is video acceleration. this aside, I have been using gnome on Wayland for years and no problems what-so-ever. I really don't know what the fuss is about.
I would prefer that people start moving this legacy nonsense behind and finally start accepting new and better things and focusing on things that have future. Same thing happened with systemd, it improves massively everything Linux, yet some people just want their services started with scripts.
What problems do you have when things don't work for you on Wayland?
* Dell latitude with old Intel 8gen CPU, it works fine (Linux kernel causes problems with PSR, but this has nothing to do with Wayland and disabling it fixes the problem, same thing with cstates)
* Dell latitude with 10gen CPU, works fine.
* Huawei d15 with Ryzen 3000 Apu, works fine.
ok. for accessibility it's fair enough as a critique.
I don't use it so can't say. As far as I can tell this hasn't been in focus at all. but most of this is on the toolkit side, not Wayland (even though here one thing is mentioned as Wayland specific, just briefly went through the post)
Does it matter? Your claim is that everything works, and I am here to tell you that I am a real person running real machines that do not work. Unless you're planning to fix the particular bugs and missing features that I'm hitting I don't see where the specifics actually matter. (Anyways, the first machine is a https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_T490 with Intel graphics; this appears to work but is less stable than Xorg. The second machine is a https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Lenovo_IdeaPad_Flex_3_Chr... that doesn't run Wayland at all, which I grant is bizarre since the stock ChromeOS uses Wayland. You are welcome to point out that this is more than a little off the beaten path, at which point I will of course point out that Xorg somehow handles it just fine.)
> but most of this is on the toolkit side, not Wayland (even though here one thing is mentioned as Wayland specific, just briefly went through the post)
It varies; a11y isn't a single thing. Deep application integration to allow eg. screen readers to work well probably needs toolkit integration. But there are also things like dwell click, which is really helpful when my RSI is flaring up. In X, I just run `mousetweaks --dwell` and it works, and it works in any window manager or desktop environment, with absolutely no help needed from toolkits or applications. In Wayland, it's sometimes available on a per-compositor basis, which I would describe as purely inferior. On which note, observe that you've linked a blog post about a prototype for GNOME. They note that they're open to working with other desktop environments, but 1. that means it doesn't exist as of that blog post, and 2. I've seen how GNOME operates over the years; I fully expect portability to be a very distant second priority, and whatever they export will be an attempt to force everyone else to do everything the way GNOME does, which will go poorly. I have no interest in ever going back to GNOME, so the actual takeaway, AFAICT, is that the a11y situation on Wayland is bad and will remain bad for the foreseeable future.
if this is so, I can admit I'm wrong. so not everything works for everyone.
For myself and members of my family, I can say that absolutely everything works on gnome. And I have several machines, spread over several cpu and gpu generations, and different form factors that confirm this. not only those 3 laptops I mentioned.
Could it be that since you are not using gnome that you are hitting those problems? My experience is exclusively gnome, so maybe this is it?
a11y aside of course... given that this was not really finished. or seriously worked on.
It certainly could be GNOME vs not-GNOME. That doesn't really help me, either way, but it's not hard to imagine that different compositors have entirely different quality levels.
if you ever come into a position that you could try or would like to try gnome, I would encourage you to do it. maybe you could eliminate that bad opinion of Wayland (or confirm it)...
yes gnome has a vision of how the desktop should look like and strong behavior of "my way or the highway", but maybe you get surprised how well it works. especially on fedora.
I assumed wrongly other people (you mostly) use gnome by default, which obviously is not the case. in that case I could see it as a problem since not everyone has red hat resources for desktop development.
HiDPI scaling (not even fractional, 2x aka 200%), for some apps like OnlyOffice, VMWare Workstation, but not only, on Ubuntu 24.04. Had to switch back to X.
You can blame the apps all you want, but it's a fact of life, and Wayland has been around for 18 years.
I don't know how you can read about the many experiences people have with Wayland not working - even now, let alone 2020 - and conclude that "all things work".
I think we are finally at the point where you can say most things work and it's silly to go back to X11, but even so Wayland has clearly been a huge failure.
Actually I still have more issues on Wayland than X. Although it is at least starting to swing in the other direction - e.g. KDE's screen recording feature doesn't work on X. The button's still there but if you click it nothing happens.