Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

But why? What's wrong with Bluetooth?




Worse quality, latency, potential to lose one (or both) earbuds, having to faff with batteries and charging and cases (and charging the charging case) when I can just... plug it in, bam, music in my ears. The knotting is a small price to pay for the improved quality and convenience in every other way.

What's wrong with analogue audio?


Something I read recently which I think is interesting food for thought:

Did ditching the headphone jack increase the number of people in public who just play their music / talk on speakerphone, because now the alternative is much more complex and expensive compared to simple 3.5mm wired headset?

Before proclaiming that Bluetooth is in fact simple and cheap, consider how your situation may differ from that of the perpetrators


My own memory and current experience on this point is that it used to be far more common than it is today.

I remembered there was a South Park episode where Cartman was being a stereotypical self-absorbed person walking around with their phone on speaker. I looked it up, and that episode came out in 2013. At the time, most phones on the market had a 3.5mm jack. Yet people not using headphones/headsets was an experience common enough to be turned into a joke in the show.

I don't think there's much correlation between 3.5mm jack availability and using a phone's speaker output in public.

"Simple" as you've used it is open to interpretation. I personally held on to wired headsets longer than most of my friends and family. You know what I don't miss, now that I've preferred wireless for a few years? Untangling the cable. Accidentally catching the cable on something and having an earbud ripped out. Picking lint out of the jack. Staying conscious of the length and positioning of the cable in the context of my own movements.

Other than the BT connection process, which is only complicated if you're fortunate enough to own multiple devices and headphones/sets to connect to them, wireless can be a lot "simpler" in actual usage.


I appreciate the counterpoint. The Cartman example is a good one. Also it's probably difficult to factor out the seemingly broken post-Covid social norms

One point I'll make is simplicity comes in many forms. Wired headphones can be dirt-cheap, they don't run out of battery, and I don't think they're as prone to getting lost


Cheaper yes, but the entry level for BT is still pretty accessible. Using Google Shopping, the lowest priced match for "wired earbuds" is $1.47. The lowest priced match for "bluetooth earbuds" is $2.46. In both cases, you hit a breakpoint of "this looks like it might possibly work for more than a few seconds" around $10.

The battery point is valid. Funnily enough, the last pair of earbuds I lost was a wired one. Myself, most of my headsets are over-ear, so they're a bit large to be easily lost. The form factor likely determines the loss potential more than the presence/lack of a wire.


My 2c.

The risk of losing one (or both) earbud is a real one. My ears don't tend to keep snug grip on the earbuds so they tend to get loose after I walk a little. With earbuds, this might just be my own singular piece but, there is also the chance that only one of the two would connect to your phone.

On the other hand, the cables get tangled together. I can't walk around with them because the cable gets stuck in the swing of my arms. Connecting them to the phone after a call had already started was a piece of cake though. With bluetooth, I never have my earbuds on when I actually need them and it's too much of a pain to take them out of my bag and connect them.

Whenever it is time to replace my current earbuds, I am gonna go for a neckband instead. It has basically the best of both, imo (I am not that sensitive to audio quality mostly) and the downsides aren't large enough (I'll think of the weight as a neck workout).


Then don’t buy headphones like that. I have AirPods Pro. But I also have a pair of $50 Beat Flex that if they fall out of my ear they just go around my neck. I use them when I travel.

I bought a pair of double flange doohickies to replace the standard ones.


> What's wrong with analogue audio?

That you need a cable for it?

Most people don't need latency, and I don't really have any latency issues. I watch videos with Bluetooth headphones and they're all synchronized perfectly.

With Bluetooth I can also "just... plug it in, bam, music in my ears."


LE Audio should fix the quality and latency problems. The latency is significantly lower and the bandwidth is twice Classic Bluetooth. There are new default codecs that are better, and there should be enough bandwidth for lossless. The other nice thing is enough bandwidth for bidirectional streams instead of low quality audio when use microphone.

The current problem is that LE Audio implementations are new with lots of headphones having them as beta.


Shouldn't it be the same thing? You either have the DAC on your phone convert the digital music file to an analog signal and send it over the aux cord to the speakers in the headphones, or have the digital file sent over Bluetooth and converted by a DAC in the headphones, right? It's not like you're plugging your headphones into a record player.

> have the digital file sent over Bluetooth and converted by a DAC in the headphones, right

This is not how Bluetooth wireless audio works. PCM audio is re-encoded on-device into any one of a few Bluetooth-capable codecs that is then streamed to the client device. This is a primary cause of latency.


Interesting, thanks

The way its bandwidth is too low to broadcast and receive at high quality at the same time meaning everyone calling into the zoom call with their fancy airpods sound like they're calling from the other side of the moon while my 5$ plug-in earbuds sound like a damn recording studio in comparison.

latency is absolute killer. then there's also the fact that splitting the output is difficult, pairing (especially multi-pairing) is finicky

but the real response is "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter"


Adapter causes unnecessary wear on the charging port.

Recently had a phone go bad when the thunderbolt port stopped working due to the same port being used repeatedly for charging and for audio adapter.

So when I updated the phone I grudgingly decided to get a BT earbud.


One of my iPhone SE's died an untimely death because of failure of the lightning port, so I'm strongly sympathetic.

I also am a hardcore 3.5mm headphone user. Wireless headphones are garbage.

I did get my mind changed on USB-C DACs by way of inductive charging. Using an USB-C DAC and still being able to inductively charge seems at least somewaht reasonable to me.

On the newest round of phones for my wife and me I've tried to make sure we're inductively charging >90% of the time.


Mine was also SE that went bad.

Need to dig deeper into inductive charging as it seems to heat the battery more especially if the phone is in a case. So yet another tradeoff to consider.

Good thing is that if the port goes bad it can still be charged.


I use a MagSafe cord for charging. Much more convenient especially when using my phone while it’s charging

> what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter

I think it just adds friction (for measure, I feel audio jacks are pretty good)

So the real response is, "what's wrong with most companies to not provide the 3.5mm itself?"

It's good that xperia's doing this though. I think I still have phones which have 3.5mm itself so there isn't much to worry about. I think there are a lot of new phones which do offer it, I think both of my parents phones have support for 3.5mm by itself.


> "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter"

I want to charge and listen to music at the same time.


You can get adapters that support charging. An example is linked below.

Note: I have not tried this. It is simply offered as an example to show they are available.

https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Charger-Charging-Earphones-...


Doesn't any such cable/adapter violate the USB-C spec? https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/10xj74r/why_d...

Depends how it's implemented.

USB-C extension cables aren't allowed, but pass-through charging is allowed. I suspect a $7 cable from a Chinese amazon seller is not spec-compliant, but e.g. Belkin sells a spec-compliant "3.5mm Audio + USB-C Charge Adapter".


>Note: I have not tried this.

Nice. They don't work on Pixels if they don't have a DAC, because Google in its infinite wisdom decided not to include one on the Pixel series.

And cables like these violate the USB spec.

Again: what was the harm in including a 3.5mm jack?


> what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter

In my experience the connection is much easier to accidentally break through movement (e.g., walking) with a USB-C adapter than straight-through 3.5mm.

I really miss having a 3.5mm output on my phone...


I pair my AirPods Pro and Beat Flex to my iPhone and they automatically pair with my iPad, watch, AppleTV and my Mac and switch between them perfectly

> "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter"

Hidden inside of a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter is an entire DAC with a power amplifier for driving headphones. They're complex little things.

And like any other bit of active, plug-in electronics: They're not all the same.

Some of them are wonderful (Apple's adapter sounds great and don't cost much), but and some of them are terrible.

And there's compatibility issues. The combination of an Apple headphone adapter on an Android produces a volume control bug that prevents a person from turning it up even to normal line level output voltages that normal audio equipment expects.

And there's functional issues: Want to play some lossless audio in the car or low-latency audio on headphones, and charge your phone at the same time? Good luck with that! (Yeah, there's adapters that have USB C inputs for power, too. They're a mess. And I once popped one as soon as my phone negotiated a 12VDC USB PD mode instead of the 5VDC that the adapter must have been made for. (And no, wireless charging isn't a solution. It's a bandaid for the deliberately-inflicted footgun incident that brought us here to begin with.))

And it's complicated: For a "simple" audio output, we've got USB 2 with a signalling rate of 480Mbps and a power supply, when all we really want is 20Hz-20KHz analog audio with left, right, ground, and (optionally) microphone.

And then: It often doesn't work. When I plug the USB C headphone adapter I have into my car and go for a drive, it disconnects sometimes: I observe no physical change, but the device resets, the music stops, and the phone rudely presents a prompt asking me which voice assistant I'd like to use (the answer is, of course, "None" -- it's always "None", but it asks anyway). And then I get to figure out how to make it play music again, which presents either a safety issue or a time-suck issue while I stop somewhere to futz with it. (Oh, right. Did I mention that the electronics in these adapters also include support for control buttons? I guess I glossed over that.)

Forcing the use of USB C headphone adapters and their complexities represents a very Rube Goldberg-esque solution to the simple problem of audio interconnection that had already been completely solved for as long as any of us reading this here have been alive.

Except: While Rube Goldberg contraptions are usually at least entertaining, this is just inelegant and disdainful.


> but the real response is "what's wrong with a usb-c to 3.5mm adapter"

Easy. You can't charge and listen to your headphones at the same time.


I can. I use a MagSafe cord. It’s been on iPhones for five years

If you’re in the low percent running cabled headphones, you probably are also running a headphone amp if necessary or not which uses more cell phone power.

Now you need a usb->usb + 3.5mm to keep it charged up or an add on battery.


I've never had good luck with bluetooth for listening to music. Too many dropouts and disconnects.

In my experience, wired earphones/headphones are better for latency in rythm games.

What wrong with a lossy signal?



Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: