> [ as much as I do not like Musk & co, this is a real useful thing he build for the mankind - internet everywere from sattelite ]
Right - but then you also depend on an US service here. And the USA changed policy where Europeans became enemies ("we won't give you arms to defend against Russian invaders! Greenland will be occupied by our military soon!").
It's a bad situation, lose-lose here. I don't think the price difference is the primary problem though; the behaviour of Telekom is the problem. That must change. The state has to ensure fairness rather than allow monopolies to milk The People.
> he behaviour of Telekom is the problem. That must change. The state has to ensure fairness rather than allow monopolies to milk The People.
The state is the monopoly here.
Telekom is still partially state-owned (~27%), since they were, back in the 90s, privatized from the former total monopoly "Deutsche Bundespost" and the related ministry "Bundespostministerium". Nowadays, the parts of the ministry that were back then regulating EM spectrum, allowable phones (basically phone police, you had to rent from Bundespost or go to jail) and generally being corrupt (relations of the former ministry to copper manufacturers is why they botched the first fibre rollouts in '95 and then ignored the topic for 20 years). Nowadays, the "Regulierungsbehoerde", staffed with the same people, is supposed to regulate their former colleagues at Telekom. Telekom got all the networks and was never split up, so it still has a (~85%?) monopoly on everything copper basically, as well as on customers, using this monopoly to bully other ISPs as well as it's own customers and extending this monopoly into future tech. And the state has a financial interest in this regulation being as lax as possible. So you can imagine how this goes...
The best solution here would probably be the EU launching its own internet constellation. China and the US both have them. How is this any different than the issues surrounding GPS?
The EU did do that, decades ago. The problem is that it requires constant investment. It's not profitable. The governments helped build it, abandoned the companies until they went bankrupt, rescued them (they're not actually insane enough to just abandon working satellites), privatized them, they went bankrupt, ...
Obviously the satellites were never modernized. But it does work, for a few thousand terminals for all of Europe with 2x to 10x the ping Starlink provides.
It's like a lot of things in the EU: on the one hand the EU absolutely requires this infrastructure, or they become dependent on foreign nations for critical infrastructure. But they won't pay. It's not even that expensive. Starlink was built with budgets that would be double-digit millions per year per EU country. But the main problem always repeats: they can't agree who gets the money/business.
If you calculate the lifespan and cost of a Starlink satellite you will come to the obvious conclusion: it will be very hard for Starlink to break even. Of course, the same can be said for most of Musk's businesses (perhaps all. I'm not actually aware of any exceptions)
> If you calculate the lifespan and cost of a Starlink satellite you will come to the obvious conclusion: it will be very hard for Starlink to break even.
We don't have up to date revenue numbers but let's look at spending $5B a year on sattelite launches. That's probably around half their current revenue, and they're gaining customers quickly. They're doing about 100 launches a year, and each launch is about 30 $1M satellites and $15M of rocket. That fits into the budget.
And for just maintaining the constellation they could cut the number of launches in half.
In March 2022, media reported that OneWeb was scheduled to launch a batch of 36 satellites from Baikonur cosmodrome days after Russia's invasion of Ukraine. There were calls for the UK to cancel the launch. Russia said the launch had already been paid for and would not be refunded, and would be cancelled from the Russian side unless OneWeb provided additional assurance that the satellites would never be used for military purposes and the British Government disposed of its shares in the company. The British government refused this demand and the launch was cancelled, along with other Russian launches. OneWeb tried through negotiations to get the stack of 36 satellites back, stranded in Kazakhstan due to political reasons. However, these negotiations never progressed. As OneWeb was on the verge of completing its 1st generation satellite network, they gave up hope in March 2023 on further attempts to get their satellites back, potentially scrapping the batch. The satellites were insured for $50 million, and OneWeb received the insurance money for them.
Huh TIL. What a troubled history. Bankruptcy shortly following launch of the initial batch, then in 2022 Russia stole the launch fee and a stack of 36 satellites from them.
They're online but unfortunately it seems they don't sell directly to consumers? So you have to find a local reseller. Sounds needlessly complicated.
Apparently Amazon's constellation should be available for consumers within the next 6 months as well. Qianfan not until next year (I didn't realize they had hit delays). So there should be direct-to-consumer Starlink alternatives SOON™.
Well, you have a point but on the other side since about 20 years the Telekom does not even think about improving the internet connection in the place I live. At some point you're just fed up. To me it seems like they just do not care about providing a good service and even if they would now provide a good service I would be more willing to give my money someone else.
I think Musk cares about revenue more than pissing off some random customer in Germany. As long as you don't stand out from the crowd, he'd rather have your $40. Use a VPN to be sure.
I wrote "it's the second funniest rom-com I've ever seen". But seriously, it was filmed in close collaboration with the United States Air Force. (Much like Mission: Impossible was a collab between US Gov and US Mil units.)
It is kind of a fun ride if you're willing to suspend that much disbelief.
But I just found it hilarious that a pair of films named and set in Greenland should be produced in this way, while the actual country is in our news cycle now. I almost feel like it's a "PR buzz campaign".
> Telekom is well known for the crappy service - but they have a de facto monopoly. For example, when it rains, the line goes down where I live.
Haha, I used to have that as well when tech swapped from ADSL2 to VDSL2 (IIRC skipped out on VDSL1), except then the line wasn't down, I'd have severe packet loss (which resulted in lag in gaming, and disconnects). So they blamed our inner house's phone lines. Then some dude came, checked everything in the house, and couldn't find the issue. I said of course not, it isn't raining.
After it got escalated further it turned out it was rotten equipment at the DSLAM. They replaced it and boom, problem was gone.
No hair on my head (and I ain't bald knock on wood) wants to have all my internet traffic first routed through an American neonazi, but if the choice is nothing (or something severely broken) or that, I can see where you are coming from. Whereas I can pick between FttH (XGS-PON), DSL (VDSL2), or cable. With the latter two being fiber up till a few hunderd meters to my house (I know where both PoPs physically are in the neighborhood, as I have seen technicians on both places). The fiber one is further away, and larger (for more households), but that is OK. It can handle that much distance. Technician showed me a photo from his smartphone when my fiber got down due to specifically my fiber connectivity destroyed at the PoP. That was a lot of fiber I saw. Good cable management though.
It was a busines decision for me: being in customer meetings and suddenly dropping out was unacceptable. Or not being able to access critical data. Vodafone LTA coverage is average at best and data is severily limited ( 15 GBs ). Really out of options here!!
While I chuckled at "American neonazi", the company SpaceX is doing great things.
I didn't say there are none at all. And I've heard that internet from small internet providers can actually be good.
But after living in 3 different apartments there, I never had a luxury to be able to connect the internet from a small provider. Their coverage is very, very limited. So it always was Telekom/Vodafone/o2.
I'm glad Vodafone is available where I live. They're not better but at least they're an alternative. Also Telekom manages only to deliver 250mbit/s while Vodafone gets 1gbit/s.
Last apartment I rented Telekom was the only option and that was one of the reasons why I decided to move.
Starlink I would love to try but as there's building and trees blocking the horizon it's not an option here sadly.
How can a satellite connection be more weather independent than a landline? Not questioning your statement. Just wondering what could be the reason. A segment with a long distance directional antenna?
Exactly what I am suspecting! I called so many times: nothing found all works as expected.
As for the starlink: I noticed that clouds or weather ( rain snow ) does not have a true effect. Must be the frequency is not absorbed by the water in the air or similar effects. Only hard blocking with construction or big canopies of trees is struggling.
I don't have think this is sustainable. There can physically be only so many satellites before we reach Kessler syndrome. The costs will rise as the quality of service falls, and there market for alternative land-based ISPs will not have developed.
KPN MXstream! Thanks for making me feel old. I got flashbacks of spending multiple evenings configuring PPTP in Linux without being able to access the internet just to get internet access.
I remember having to walk to a buddies home just to check the tutorial:
Except that with Telekom they answer to the German courts which might eventually force them to stop doing this but with Starlink you're at the mercy of some dudes halfway across the globe. If/when Starlink reaches the enshittification phase, there will be very little in the way.
The bright side of this is that there is at least some sort of competition, since they operate on very different infrastucture. This is the free market premise on how quality and price should improve. Reality is often different though, because most customers are not really comparing and/or voting with their feet.
Meh, the threat vector to me as a resident of Germany is the German government - not some dude at the other end of the world. What is Musk going to do? Ban me from Twitter? Not sell me a Tesla?
That's nothing compared to what German authorities can do to me. Germany is a country where you get police searching your home for torrenting movies or making stupid jokes on Facebook. So yeah.
Also about enshittification - one could argue that our local ISPs never left that phase to begin with.
This person just wants internet that doesn't frequently cut out.
Don't blame them for their choices. Blame Telekom and its shareholders for not being able to reliably supply broadband internet in 2026. Blame the government for not having consumer protection regarding right to internet access. But don't blame this person for just doing what is necessary for having basic internet access.
Solution: I got my Starlink. 3x speed. No crappy service. Weather independent. And surprinsingly cheaper ( 40 euros vs 45 ) .
[ as much as I do not like Musk & co, this is a real useful thing he build for the mankind - internet everywere from sattelite ]