You should try Dota2. Out of all the games in that genre (HoN, LoL, original Dota), Dota2 seems to have the best community out there. There is match making, so you will be paired with people that are at least somewhat close to you in skill.
To deal with trolls/toxic people, they have a reporting system. If someone gets reported by a number of people they will be muted and/or put into the low priority queue. Muting lasts X duration (depending on repeat offences) and prevents that person from talking at all in game (they can still use the chat wheel I believe).
The low-priority queue is a separate match-making queue, where only people in this queue will play against one another. It is for people that regularly abandon games (or are toxic players). It tends to be filled with the trouble-making players.
Toxic communities are intrinsic to the DOTAlike genre. Think about it - if you have a bad teammate, what happens? In other games, a bad teammate will be around for only a short game, or you switch servers, or the server will auto-scramble the teams, or the teams are large enough that the one player's failures will be diluted among the rest of a large team. At the very least in a normal game, a bad teammate will simply be inneffective.
In DOTAlike games? You're married to the bad teammate. If you drop, the game brands you a leaver. You won't be scrambled. The round won't even end any time soon - you're just stuck with him for many, many minutes of play. But the worst part is, he's actually feeding power to the enemy. Every time you get in a fight and get your ass kicked, you're going to think of the screwups your bad teammate did.
And there's no perspective, no fog-of-war between teammates. You can see his every screw-up. Can watch it in hateful detail.
And then the other team just reams you and clobbers you because they've cranked their power up.... but the game doesn't even have the dignity of ending quickly, you're stuck while they pummel you until the game ends properly instead of being trapped in this moribund state.
And all the time, your hatred for that idiotic scrub boils.
The game is practically designed to make you hate the weakest player on your team.
> You're married to the bad teammate. If you drop, the game brands you a leaver. You won't be scrambled. The round won't even end any time soon - you're just stuck with him for many, many minutes of play. But the worst part is, he's actually feeding power to the enemy. Every time you get in a fight and get your ass kicked, you're going to think of the screwups your bad teammate did.
It sounds like you need to do the opposite -- help the bad teammate. Yelling at the person is just going to make them less cooperative. How is it that we've been programmed to yell at these people when that makes it worse? (or have we learned that yelling works and we apply it to everything?)
It sounds like you need to do the opposite -- help the bad teammate. Yelling at the person is just going to make them less cooperative. How is it that we've been programmed to yell at these people when that makes it worse? (or have we learned that yelling works and we apply it to everything?)
The Dunning-Kruger effect gets in the way of this. A lot of unskilled people take offense at unsolicited advice, particularly if they're so unskilled as to deem themselves the best player on the team. It doesn't help that the game tracks somewhat superficial stats such as kills and deaths; a score that can run counter to the actual hidden score in the game: gold/experience differential. Like a basketball player who shoots all the time and refuses to pass, bad players will often prioritise individual success in lieu of team success. Then when you try to help them they lash out at you for not having as many kills as them; seemingly ignorant of the different roles on a team.
I've played dota, dota 2, and... well far ganes more than I Care to admit.
I have played War 3 competitively, at my best was ranked second nationally in my country when it was a thing, and I went and managed/founded a team as well.
From personal experience, I disagree with the implication that the dunning-krueger effect gets in the way of it.
I have a hard time explaining how precisely atm, but you can often get the weaker players to work with you, and at the same time create a team even in the middle of a pub game.
TO give an example of some of the core tricks: in WoW battlegrounds the simple act of constantly YELLING the enemies incoming to a node, and keeping up the communication banter (even alone in local chat) will result in a spate of wins.
If I were to simplify it, it would be know what to communicate, and communicate simply. Your greatest enemy is discord, and poor communication.
Further: in pub games its probably easier because a modicum of co-ordination will get you quick battle wins over the opponents and so solidify camaraderie. Strong opponents who know what they are doing better than you can assist will leave you with few opportunities on the field to capitalize on.
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For weak players in DoTA 1 and 2.
No one likes being cursed, and become more receptive to someone who steps in, while also providing some space to enjoy themselves and win. I've found myself saying
> "Chill out. All of us were noobs once. Player X, you did screw up, but it happens. Next time, call out, or let us know." Or
> "mate, we're bugged because we NEED your skill to land, thats why they are pissed, they depend on you."
Those lines sound cheesy when I write them down, but context, delivery and crafting of the appropriate sentence matters a lot more.
Side note: In DoTA I've found you can control your team better playing a support role.
I've never played these games so I may be missing something, but why is that a problem? Somebody else in this thread mentioned that lossing in Dota is worse than losing in other games, but didn't explain why either.
I'm getting the sense that the real cause of the issue is that for some reason people take Dota way too seriously. If you lose, what's the big deal? You still had fun right?
A coworker told me a few days ago that he use to play "league of legends" but quit when he realized he wasn't actually having fun since the experience become too stressful.
I've played a lot of games, and when I lose a game of Dota it's absolutely devastating but when I win a good/close game, I am absolutely euphoric, sometimes even into the next day. I don't think (most) people actually take the game very seriously, it just has to do with the mechanics involved. First, it requires a high level of knowledge and focus. There are constant macro and micro strategy decisions to be made and a high level of constant fine motor skills required. Additionally, you are highly dependent on your teammates, as they are on you. If one person on your team makes a big mistake, it can cost your team the game. However, there is frequent opportunity to work with your teammates to set up great plays, which are extremely rewarding to pull off successfully. The third important factor is the match structure. Each game of LoL/Dota is a discrete thing with a small number of participants. It is common in other multiplayer games today to have people coming in and out during a "session". For instance in first person shooters, perhaps you join a 32 player server that is halfway through a map, you play for 15 minutes and then the server changes maps. New people join, some people leave. In LoL/Dota, a game lasts 30-60 minutes and you are stuck with the 5v5 team for that game. I think the extreme highs and lows are at least partially due to the above factors: the level of focus required, the intense team dependence, and the match structure.
> I'm getting the sense that the real cause of the issue is that for some reason people take Dota way too seriously. If you lose, what's the big deal? You still had fun right?
When you start getting better in such games, you need to be very concentrated, very nervous. It isn't all fun and casual gaming anymore. When this concentration pays off and you win, it feel amazing, when it doesn't and you lose, you feel miserable. Anyway, you can't get back to lower level casual gaming (make a new account, for example) since it becomes so easy that you could play blindfolded.
Of course you could somewhat alleviate the negative effect of losses by having good permanent teammates, also whole game becomes much more interesting if you coordinate with fellows you know. Still, blame shifting happens even in the friendliest of teams.
I've stopped playing MOBA (HoN is my poison of choice) when I understood how nervous and unpleasant I am after the game session.
what some people don't realise is that MOBAs - played at a high level- aren't a game anymore, they're an e-sport. They are played competitively, the only goal being to win. This applies to HON/DOTA/LOL, but also to Counter-strike, Starcraft, and, to a certain extent, Halo. Obviously also to Quake and UT, but those are to old to be relevant now.
An e-sport is taken as seriously as competitive sport in the USA. Any American will know how important winning is in sports. To understand the importance people attribute to winning in some video games, you have to see them as an e-sport.
League of Legends has a much more sophisticated system for dealing with jerks. It has skill-based matchmaking too (does HoN really not have it?), and you can actually be permabanned if you keep being a jerk and don't shape up. League of Legends also tries not to be infuriating as much as it can, so for example while killing somebody does reward the killer, it doesn't take gold from the person who got killed or prevent them from getting XP.
I'm fairly certain LoL also has these counter measures in place, alas, it's still full of trolls and toxic people (not to say that there aren't well behaved ppl, but compared to other games...)
To deal with trolls/toxic people, they have a reporting system. If someone gets reported by a number of people they will be muted and/or put into the low priority queue. Muting lasts X duration (depending on repeat offences) and prevents that person from talking at all in game (they can still use the chat wheel I believe).
The low-priority queue is a separate match-making queue, where only people in this queue will play against one another. It is for people that regularly abandon games (or are toxic players). It tends to be filled with the trouble-making players.