It reaches a point where it has economy of scale and specific taste profile developed that it is very hard for others to break into the market. Similar to bake beans for those living in UK.
The cost of ingredient is so low in the overall of things, restaurants, owner, vendors or whatever are not willing to switch ingredients and risk losing their customers. Tabasco is similar because majority of their business actually resides in Food Services sector and not consumers. The basic rule of thumb in Food offering, dont FUCK with your recipes.
I remember when I was still in the Food sector I was trying to import and distribute Sriracha for years in the late 00s and very early 10s. Every time the answer has been not enough capacity. Demand outstripping Supply in most of their important / domestic ( US ) market. Importers have to rely on non-official parallel import channels. Somehow I think it went internet viral by mid 10s, which in turns generate further interest. And a whole positive feedback loop was formed. Worth noting is that these things takes a long time to make. I dont know about Sriracha but Tabasco takes up to three years. Once you factor in capacity planning and sourcing of quality chillies ( and assuming yields are good ), that is why supply takes time to catch up.
Unfortunately these type of investment takes a very long time and are not something VC likes to invest in. But for me they are sometimes far more interesting and fascinating than most tech.
Heinz ketchup is on a whole different level; it's not just that it's the default ketchup (which it is), it's that:
1) When ketchup is called for, there isn't a substitute condiment that's kind of similar. Sriracha in general is a subset of hot sauces, but nobody thinks of a general case for ketchup--it's just ketchup. Maybe there are situations where no hot sauce but sriracha will do, but that's much rarer in the US (where Huy Fong dominates the market).
2) There are no Fancy Dijon Ketchups. The food snobs don't have an artisan brand they like better; Heinz is as good as it gets. It's Andy Warhol's old observation that the President drinks the same Coke that you do, only more so--there are way more niche colas than niche ketchups.
In Europe it’s pretty common to have non-Heinz ketchup, of which there are many[0] kinds[1]. Even in America, where Heinz is super popular, I can remember eating other[2] ketchups as far back as the 1980’s. And nowadays even my supermarket has fancy ketchups here in rural California, though that may be a CA thing.
Heinz hurt itself a little bit when they stopped making it with Canadian tomatoes and shut down a plant here, then a (US-based!) competitor (French’s) grabbed some market-share at the low end with a Canadian-based product.
Also interestingly, for example here in southern Africa we don't really have ketchup, we only eat tomato sauce (as the closest relative).
We did have a Heinz SA, but they are failing and will be discontinued. I'm guessing that all the locals stuck to their preferred brands and no one else made enough of an inroad.
2) Been to plenty of restaraunts that tout house-made ketchup. Sure Heinz has natural recipe variations out now, but the dijon of ketchup would be small batch sourced from garden fresh tomatoes and high end vinegar.
I've seen plenty of brands in specialty markets that are more expensive than Heinz for that reason.
I may be in a bit of a bubble then; I think I've only been to one restaurant that made their own ketchup (for their duck-fat fries, and they were definitely an outlier). I'm sure now that I'm looking out for them, I will now see high-end small-batch ketchups everywhere.
I'm curious how trends will go in the future -- maybe next year will be all about artisanal small-batch ketchups, who knows -- but it wouldn't surprise me if ~everyone who likes ketchup on things is perfectly happy with Heinz 57 and ~most people who want something else for their burgers, fries or steaks want something different. BBQ sauce, mayo, mustard, sriracha, guac, mole... and not just "ketchup, but better".
Like, imagine your friend excitedly dragging you to a new restaurant, where they serve their house-made fries with ________. The world of things that can go in that blank is so large I have a hard time imagining "artisanal ketchup" being the thing that wins out.
I was looking for Whataburger as a counterexample here to the sentiment that there are no widespread Heinz alternatives and found it in your comment. It’s the perfect counterexample to OP’s comment in multiple ways -
1. It’s widespread (not even artisanal) in the regions it is deployed in. I can walk into my neighborhood grocery store in Texas and always expect to see Whataburger Spicy Ketchup in the condiment aisle.
2. The spicy ketchup is a genuinely superior product to Heinz. It just straight up tastes better, feels less sugary, and it’s far enough ahead in quality that I actively seek it out over “regular” ketchup.
> The food snobs don't have an artisan brand they like better
Sure, they do (lots of them—as with mustards contrasted with basic French’s yellow, plenty of different styles—for different foodies, some that are refinements of the mass market style, e.g., Annie’s Organics entry, but lots that go with more distinct flavor, especially spice, profiles; Maya Kaimal Spicy Ketchup would be an example in this category.) What there might not be is a Grey Poupon equivalent, a succesfully mass-marketed mass-appeal entry brand to the not-the-basic-thing segment.
The fancy Dijon ketchup never tastes better though. It just tastes different, and sometimes worse.
Heinz has had decades and armies of food scientists and tasters to dial in their recipe. The only way to compete with that is to make a ketchup that is less appealing to the average person but more appealing to some niche subset of people (e.g. crank up or down the acidity or sweetness).
> he only way to compete with that is to make a ketchup that is less appealing to the average person but more appealing to some niche subset of people
You sound like it's some kind of bizzarre weird strategy that only few insane weirdos would try. As in fact that's how most of the food brands (by number, not by volume) would work - find your niche and serve it. And not only food, of course. Some produce average food for "average person", some produce excellent food for people that value it. That's how it has always been.
I don't agree. The reason that average people eat average quality food is because they get paid average wages, not because they don't value the good stuff.
For instance, pretty much anybody will prefer high quality ice cream to basic ice cream, but the reason that basic ice cream still exists is because the fancy stuff costs 5x more.
The problem with making a "fancy" ketchup is that ketchup is a completely artificial food. The quality of a ketchup is in how balanced it is. And balancing a ketchup is a fixed cost not a marginal cost. Whoever makes the most revenue will have the best ketchup.
I have very hard time believing it. Food that I consider above average may be a little more expensive, but mainly because it's much less mass-produced. And there's better quality ice cream that costs roughly about the same (though much harder to find), and terrible quality ice cream that costs more. We don't have to go far - Coca Cola earns billions selling basically caffeinated sugar water. Not because people don't have any money to buy better drinks. Because people want to buy specifically sugar water, because they have learned that's what cool people drink.
Finding a working ketchup formula may be not easy. But you have to do it once. Then that's it, you can sell it forever. And it doesn't take that much. As well as it doesn't take it that much to not just stuff tomato paste with as much sugar as chemistry would allow and call it "ketchup". And yet, mass brands to that and a lot of people happily buy it.
Better stuff may cost more, because of smaller volumes and better quality controls, but not 5x. At least not all of them. I just checked the list of ketchups in Whole Foods. Heintz is 17c per ounce. 365 brand is 8.7c/oz. Others range from 18c to 73c, pretty much equally distributed. Yes, there's one 5x brand - but that's one, out of a dozen. And that's just one store, I'm sure there are more brands which will occupy the whole gamut from 1x to 10x (I am sure somebody somewhere sells a ketchup for more than a dollar per oz, even if I haven't seen one).
> The reason that average people eat average quality food is because they get paid average wages, not because they don't value the good stuff.
Tastes really aren't universal and, more than that, have a certain average (though there is large individual variation) contribution from familiarity and other path-dependent effects.
Do average people eat average food because of average income, or average tastes, of average tastes due to average income? Each is part of the story (and how much of a part each is varies from person to person and category of food.)
> The fancy Dijon ketchup never tastes better though.
To your taste, sure. For lots of people, the same thing is true of dijon (and other not-French’s-yellow) mustard.
OTOH, plenty of people disagree with you on that, which is why there are established, succesful—if individually mostly niche—alternatives.
> Heinz has had decades and armies of food scientists and tasters to dial in their recipe.
So did French’s. The hard part of getting broad reach on alternatives isn’t making some alternative that enough people will like if they try, but getting enough people over the activation energy threshold to try. Grey Poupon’s breakout marketing campaign in the 80s did that for mustard; there hasn't been an equivalent for ketchup.
And, sure, that probably doesn’t unseat the dominant player, but that’s not what thr uothread discussion of “dijon” alternatives was about.
> There are no Fancy Dijon Ketchups. The food snobs don't have an artisan brand they like better; Heinz is as good as it gets.
Sure there are. There's lots of alternative ketchups both on the health scale (less or no high fructose corn syrup) and taste scale (spicier, smokier, you name it).
I use ketchup semi-regularly but haven't bought the Heinz type in ages (primarily to avoid so much fructose, but it's also fun to experiment with the different flavors).
To add to dragonwriter’s response, I raise you Sir Kensington’s [1]. They’re popular in San Francisco (used at Super Duper Burgers, for example) and available at Whole Foods and on Good Eggs.
Even Heinz offers its own organic variant [2], but IIRC it’s not particularly different from the regular.
Finally, the category also includes tomato “jam” (and some might include tomato chutney), tomato-based BBQ sauces, and even tomato-based salsa (commonly used for egg dishes in place of ketchup).
But I disagree - I used to buy Heinz by default, but switched to "Wilkin & Sons Tiptree Tomato Sauce"
Heinz is a 'default' - and absence of it used to indicate the replacement was worse. Now - plenty of better options, just maybe without the brand recognition.
Heinz is a good baseline - you know what you're getting.
I grew up on Heinz, but nowadays it tastes overly processed and heavy (and too sweet) to me. I'll usually get Annie's if it's available. I'll still eat Heinz if that's what's there, but I don't prefer it.
There are niche ketchups. I buy them from time to time - since regular ones (including Heinz) have too high sugar content, and also I don't like the taste of Heinz one. So yes, there are different ketchups - and there are different soft drinks too, by the way.
Whole Foods has over 10 brands of ketchup: https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/search?text=ketchup including their own "365" label. It suggests to me if everybody were buying Heinz, they probably wouldn't bother doing their private label?
Bit of a food snob here, I usually buy a "fancy" alternative to Heinz even if it's just the Annie's Organic bottle that's also mass-manufactured but to me has a richer vegetable taste and less saccharine sweetness to it. Heinz tastes a bit too much like HFCS-sweetened tomato frosting to me.
In India, and stretching into the Indian diaspora worldwide, Maggi Hot and Sweet sauce became extremely popular, and for some things such as samosas you can almost never use the regular Heinz ketchup - it has to be paired with Maggi Hot and Sweet.
Funny. As a german I avoid anything Maggi, while spicing up my pizzas ('Diavolo' which is basically a Pizza Salami with some added red onion stripes and pepperoni) with varying tandoori spice mixes, sometimes chili in addition, about 2 dozen jalapeno slices and Sri Racha :-)
> The food snobs don't have an artisan brand they like better; Heinz is as good as it gets.
I'm not convinced that's the case. I mean, yeah, I buy Heinz to go with fries or on my beyond burger, but for a brief time I made my own ketchup using a very simple recipe I found on a youtube channel but substituting my own spice blend and it was amazing. In the end though my palette is not very picky and my inherent laziness won out.
So since I know ketchup can be better than Heinz, I have to expect that there is in fact a fancy branded ketchup out there that is.
> Maybe there are situations where no hot sauce but sriracha will do, but that's much rarer in the US
There are many cases where sriracha not not general hot sauce would work such as dim sum and pho.
And before you counter with "in the US", I'd argue that Huy Fong is much more dominant in California than in the US at large and in California, cuisines where only sriracha type hot sauce and not just any general hot sauce works are much more common.
Perhaps it's a regional thing, but there are definitely places where Red-Gold usage comes close to Heinz. I'd still say Heinz is dominant in said regions, but Red Gold does see usage, and I don't think it's just because of a price difference.
Personally, I like Red Gold on fries more than Heinz. Couldn't explain why very easily as I'm not one to use food terms. Maybe a bit more acidic?
Curious, here in Sweden I'd say Heinz is pretty close to the bottom of the supermarket ketchup totem pole, while Coke/Pepsi have their usual near-duopoly.
My first exposure to Sriracha was the 2014 lawsuit where a plant in California was causing issues.
Queue meeting my now asian wife whose family uses Sriracha in near about everything and it has basically replaced ketchup.
Matter of fact they use it so much it changed MY spice tolerance such that we now have Sriracha Ketchup instead of Heinz. We even went the extra bit and replaced American Mayo with Kewpie mayo.
American condiments can stand to learn from global condiments...
Funny thing is in Vietnam you cannot really see Sriracha anywhere, because what’s the point, the local chili are cheaper and better, what is the point of importing from US.
I had assumed it's a general style of sauce though. I wouldn't expect the Vietnamese to import the American stuff, the sauce originated there and a Vietnamese immigrant brought it to the US. Is that not the case?
> American condiments can stand to learn from global condiments
There's no such thing as American condiments, unless you pretend the US is homogeneous (which it isn't remotely close to being). Maybe you kinda sorta could have pigeonholed the US like that 40-50 years ago. I don't think it's possible to label-standardize as it pertains to food in the US any longer (as though there's American food at this point), given the diversity in the US now and the large variance between regions, states, cities.
The US is (sadly) extremely homogeneous because it's the same few dozen brands that are ever-present everywhere. You can be air-dropped blindfolded into a strip mall anywhere in the country and there will be no way to tell where you are since it'll be the exact same chain-food.
> Maybe you kinda sorta could have pigeonholed the US like that 40-50 years ago.
Strange comment because 40-50 years ago it was quite the opposite. A few nationwide-chains existed already, but every town had a local flavor and nearly all restaurants were local. It was fun to travel town to town experiencing the differences. Today it's the same everywhere. Very dull.
America has a fairly homogeneous culture though. There are chains of franchises everywhere and many monopolies in the supply chains. There are is also an independent element, but let's not pretend that the homogenized choice isn't extremely popular.
I am happy that we don't have Starbucks here. We have our own cafe chains. We don't need the us franchises to colonize the globe, we want local variety.
In terms of cuisine, America is not really homogeneous. I mean, even a relatively moderate change from LA to SF means a change from heavy Hispanic influence to more Asian. Or a change from SF to Portland and you get a lot more traditional 'American' (which really means Northeastern, since the South, Southwest, and California is very different foodwise), but with a heavy 'natural' emphasis.
Certainly, we have access to the same stuff, and many of us enjoy similar food, but I mean, Californians put avocado on everything, and you're not going to get Gumbo in Seattle.
America has a national food culture that kind of exists on top of the local one.
Your post reveals your eating habits. :) There are tons of chain restaurants that exist in both SF and LA, as well as nationally. There's no shortage of chain food options. McDonalds, Chipotle, Applebee's, Denny's, Pizza Hut, Chili's, and on and on. Your budget and palate may allow you the luxury of never eating in those kinds of places, but to say America is not really homogeneous because you choose not to frequent those kinds of places, ignores the reality of the many many chain restaurants who's appeal is the consistency of dining experience.
I agree that you can eat a homogeneous diet in america. On long drives, I often find myself at one of these places precisely for consistency.
However, most Americans do not cook the way fast food restaurants produce food. Also, chains differ. For example, in the south, there are often different proportions of chains. Most people eat their local diet.
I notice it all the time. Contrary to popular belief, these 'ethnic' places are not expensive or fancy. When I lived in California, I often ate at cheapo Mexican restaurants and cheap asian ones. Now that I live in Oregon, I often find myself at cheapo pub fare type places or food trucks serving Lebanese food.
Cuisines change a lot across the country. The fast food system is a homogeneous layer superimposed on top of that. Most people do not eat that everyday.
No, I’m pretty sure it’s getting worse. Anecdotally about 10 years ago when out-of-towners would ask where the closest Starbucks was, I’d proudly say there’s just the one at the convention center. Now my mid sized city is infested with them despite already having a few regional chains and dozens of independent shops.
And like Heinz Ketchup (although apparently it's a regional thing, Hunts is popular in some places and there are other versions), the statement "without a trademark" makes no sense. Like, neither company owns "Sriracha" or "Ketchup", but both definitely have trademarks on the other parts of their packaging and names.
And Heinz has a Sriracha Ketchup.
>. Once you factor in capacity planning and sourcing of quality chillies
I believe Huy Fong (as of 2016) and Tobasco (As of much earlier) run their own pepper farms. Tobasco takes those three years to age in vinegar. Siratcha does not have an aging process I am aware of, it goes straight through the commercial kitchen and into bottles.
The don't change your recipe is certainly true. I remember Arnott's (Australia) has a disastrous backlash[1] when they tried to change the flavour of BBQ and Pizza Shapes.
Yes they need to sit in some barrels for aging. Similar to making of cheese like parmesan cheese. And they are still done in a very very old fashion way. ( For good reason )
The only process that is modern is quality control, packaging and bottling.
Sriracha does seem to be northern California's version of ketchup - it is ubiquitous in restaurants. You can even get it at Starbucks, though I've never seen anyone add it to hot drinks.
I've seen it a lot in southern California as well, although various Mexican hot sauces are also popular, as is Tabasco.
It reaches a point where it has economy of scale and specific taste profile developed that it is very hard for others to break into the market. Similar to bake beans for those living in UK.
The cost of ingredient is so low in the overall of things, restaurants, owner, vendors or whatever are not willing to switch ingredients and risk losing their customers. Tabasco is similar because majority of their business actually resides in Food Services sector and not consumers. The basic rule of thumb in Food offering, dont FUCK with your recipes.
I remember when I was still in the Food sector I was trying to import and distribute Sriracha for years in the late 00s and very early 10s. Every time the answer has been not enough capacity. Demand outstripping Supply in most of their important / domestic ( US ) market. Importers have to rely on non-official parallel import channels. Somehow I think it went internet viral by mid 10s, which in turns generate further interest. And a whole positive feedback loop was formed. Worth noting is that these things takes a long time to make. I dont know about Sriracha but Tabasco takes up to three years. Once you factor in capacity planning and sourcing of quality chillies ( and assuming yields are good ), that is why supply takes time to catch up.
Unfortunately these type of investment takes a very long time and are not something VC likes to invest in. But for me they are sometimes far more interesting and fascinating than most tech.